Post by @neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

Neil Brown

@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk 2 hr. ago

It doesn't matter that you've had sex with them before.

It doesn't matter that they came back to your place.

It doesn't matter that they agreed to something else.

It doesn't matter how they are dressed.

It doesn't matter that they previously agreed to that specific thing.

It doesn't matter that you were in the midst of something consensual if they then changed their mind.

It doesn't matter that their "no" isn't forceful or violent or accompanied by them leaving.

Clear, enthusiastic, ongoing consent is both sexy and vital.

I fear that there will be some *dreadful* takes on consent (elsewhere) following Brand's conviction.

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Ben Curthoys

@bencurthoys@mastodon.social 12 min. ago

@neil do you remember the one about the tea? I thought that one was good.

Azuaron

@Azuaron@cyberpunk.lol 27 min. ago

@neil He actually got convicted? Hell yeah! Fuck that guy!

pieceofthepie :coffefied:

@pieceofthepie@social.n8e.dev 50 min. ago

@neil the Dispatches I just watched paints a, quite frankly, fucking awful picture of the man and the whole TV personality protection thing that seems endemic to productions.

When your producers are having serious discussions about not leaving women alone in someone's presence you have to wonder what the fuck is going on in their heads when they contract that someone.

derenglischekoenig

@derenglischekoenig@freiburg.social 1 hr. ago

@neil "It doesn't matter that you are in the midst of something consensual and they changed their mind" does not, to me, read the way I think you meant it to.

Neil Brown

@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk 57 min. ago

@derenglischekoenig

The intended meaning is that an action ceases to be consensual, and thus becomes rape / sexual assault, when a participant changes their mind. The fact that it was, until then, consensual, does not affect the fact that it is now non-consensual.

derenglischekoenig

@derenglischekoenig@freiburg.social 30 min. ago

@neil I understand the intended meaning, and of course agree with it. But would you say this is a fair quote?

'Lawyer Neil Brown, writing in the aftermath of the Russell Brand verdict, opined "It doesn't matter that you are in the midst of something consensual and they changed their mind."'

Most people would say that conveys the opposite meaning to the one intended.

Replace "and" by "if" and the intended meaning carries over correctly.

I will shut up now.

Neil Brown

@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk 28 min. ago

@derenglischekoenig Ah, I see what you mean!

Theolodian

@theolodian@mastodon.social 2 hr. ago

@neil it doesn’t matter that you’re married…

Neil Brown

@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk 2 hr. ago

Sorry, preaching to choir here, I know.

Neil Brown

@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk 2 hr. ago

I say that but, actually, more cis het men raging about consent is perhaps no bad thing.

NatalyaD

@NatalyaD@disabled.social 1 hr. ago

@neil please do keep saying it here and elsewhere. It reminds everyone of the message and identifies you as a cis het man willing to say this to others.

MaddieM4

@MaddieM4@raphus.social 1 hr. ago

@neil Honestly, though. A lot of rape culture is the support that men expect to have when they violate consent, and if they can't expect that from strangers or buddies, that culture starts to shred apart at its seams.

Neil Brown

@neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk 1 hr. ago

@MaddieM4 Yes :(