Post

Sign in
About
Code of conduct
Privacy
Users
Instances
About Bonfire

@woozle@toot.cat · activity timestamp 2 hr. ago

Look, all I'm saying is can we please stop referring to the tool as the problem and start referring to the people abusing the tool as the problem?

Otherwise we give the latter a free pass.

That is: you're letting the oligarchs and their CEO lackeys get away clean with doing all the horrible things they are doing with this tool, and dodging all the blame by letting us frame the tool as the problem.

...while also creating a chilling-effect around positive uses (and even discussion of positive uses) of the actual tool.

For anyone saying "there are no positive uses of this tool" -- that is an extraordinary claim, so please be prepared to provide evidence if you assert it.

I also suspect it shows that you really haven't taken a good look at the tool outside of the ways it has been marketed at you and pushed on you by the aforementioned oligarch-minions.

I guess I can't blame you for that -- but please do think about it.

Flag this post
Block

0 Boosts

0 Likes

lime with barcode

@scanlime@misc.name · activity timestamp 24 min. ago

@woozle The "tool" isn't the only problem but it IS a big problem. I would love to argue against the "usefulness" but why is that even necessary here? Why would you argue against considering the context and ethics of a system just because it "works"? Plenty of atrocities were "useful" to the ones committing them. In short; what the fuck??

Flag this comment
Block

like jam or bootlaces

@idlestate@toot.cat · activity timestamp 58 min. ago

@woozle

I'm astew with all sorts of reactions to that that I'm trying to keep in check, mostly around the recurring pattern we've seen of escalating apologia & accomodation.

There is no singular "the tool."

It's a system incorporating quite a few things.

Given how power structures are arrayed against skeptics & refuseniks, I am (to understate this massively) uncomfortable with putting on them further the onus for talking about this entire shambles "the right way."

If you think there's a better way to talk about these things, then by all means, do so.

Flag this comment
Block

Woozle Hypertwin

@woozle@toot.cat · activity timestamp 19 min. ago

@idlestate That is a very good point, about "the tool" not being a single thing, and the problem is a system in need of reform. (I'm perhaps extrapolating a little from what you said.)

...and yeah, I definitely don't want to quash anyone fighting against the problem, which is absolutely real and rather devastating, even if they use words which I think are kinda pointing towards bad solutions.

I guess part of what that post was about is working towards finding better ways to talk about the problem... but I also know that sometimes building a movement requires oversimplification. That in some ways is its own serious problem, but it's the reality we're dealing with...

I see better forum-design as an essential part of being able to talk about this properly. I've been working on that for years and am still not really close to being able to implement it... but that's my long-term solution.

In the meantime, I'm just hoping to push things in a slightly better direction where I can. Evidence suggests I'm not great at it.

Flag this comment
Block

like jam or bootlaces

@idlestate@toot.cat · activity timestamp 54 min. ago

re: more spicy tech-pol frustration (the usual subject)

@woozle

But also, crucially, if people are talking about AI the "wrong" way then maybe consider laying that more directly at the feet of people doing all of the various types of promotion and their apologists.

Flag this comment
Block

Woozle Hypertwin

@woozle@toot.cat · activity timestamp 11 min. ago

@idlestate I don't have any way to talk to them, so all I can do is talk about them... which is what I was trying to do in the OP.

In part, I'm trying to draw attention to the idea that the best way to fight "AI" (meaning specifically how it's used abusively) is to fight capitalism -- and that some of that abuse is almost begging for advocacy of specific things like UBI, and we should be making better use of those openings.

Another analogy: The enemy is firing flaming arrows into the city, and all we can do is talk about how awful the flaming arrows are, and how fire is bad and arrows are bad.

That said, there is value in making people aware of the danger of the flaming arrows, teaching them how to stay safe and put out fires, and maybe even put up some kind of shielding so the arrows can't get in -- is that what we're doing, though? It's not clear to me.

Flag this comment
Block