Discussion
Sometimes I have a student who has to work much harder than their peers just to keep up with the mathematics. It could be that they have less experience with math, it could be that math is difficult for them, but it can be discouraging to work as hard or harder than everyone else and just get a C-
It can make you feel really small and not very smart. Even if objectively you know that isn't really true.
For those who have been that student what helped you to keep going?
@futurebird at the time I started to study physics, I thought I’m too stupid to understand math. It’s been my friends that kept me going - and later, I finished mathematics with a diploma… I wouldn’t have been able to do so if they hadn’t been there.
for me it was the maths teacher who took the extra time to sit down with me and see that I had understood it, even if I wasn't as fast as the others at solving the problems. Just knowing that she knew that I could solve the problems but was just slow was enough.
@futurebird I won't haev a good life if I didn't graduate high school, That's the only thing that kept me going back then.
That's a harsh way to look at it. But, it's not detached from the truth unfortunately.
@futurebird I stopped caring about grades and focused on what I could learn on the subjects. I developed this mentality not long after I started college.
There were subjects I had a low grade but learned more than subjects that had good grades.
@futurebird For me it was focusing on two things:
1. Whether I was good at something or not, was I learning? Maybe I was struggling, but at least I was taking in _some_ new (hopefully practical) information.
2. Focusing on the end goal. The class might be hard, but it was getting me to the next stage - in my education, in my career, in my hobby. The individual grade/test wasn't important, the class was moving me toward where I wanted to be.
@futurebird I didn't. I quit. I had a peer tutor, but it wasn't enough.
I studied art instead, then education...then ...architecture?
I work with math profs. When we drink and I ask them about math they tell me my questions are the best and that I'd be so good at math.
But like, I never opened a textbook after grade 7. In grade 6 Mr. W let the boys play video games while the girls worked from the textbook. In grades 7 & 8 I got D's. In HS the teacher quit 1/2 through so we all passed.
@futurebird I was such bad at mathematics because of a very bad teacher who horribly bullied us when we had questions, especially when we wanted to know more philosophical stuff (like ' did humans always had a zero?'). Unfortunately, nobody helped us in school time.
Very late, when I designed jewelry with paper art, inspired by natural forms, I suddenly learnt that nature is fascinating geometry and mathematics, and that I intuitively used the good old Pythagoras. Ictried to relearn it.
But the
I would add that "keep going" isn't always the right answer. But, if it is, how do you hang on through the (seemingly) unrewarding part of learning?
Set your own bars for success? Know that getting a C- when you started from behind is a big deal and harder than just getting As with little effort since everything has been just how you needed it for years?
I think sometimes when students can work through this stage they do get to the other side. It gets easier.
And yet. It's hard.
@futurebird I was abysmally bad in math. Discovered years later I had dysclculia among other things, like difficulty learning things by rote with no rationale. Ended up at the bottom of my class with a terrible grade at my high school exam (French baccalaureate). Still traumatized 40 years later 😅
@futurebird I always failed the "show your work" bit. My results were correct. My process was "wrong". Luckily I had one teacher who focused on the results. We had a daily 20 problem quiz. Do the work in your head, write the result only on paper. It's my only A in math. I was lucky to scrape by with C or D's most of the time.
That teacher made me realize I can do math. (Although I've had co-workers mystified that my nonsensical -to them- equations allow me to reach the correct result 😂)
Oof. I am exactly this person. 💔
1. Know when to quit.
Sometimes something really isn't for you and that's okay. There are other things that come naturally to all sorts of brains.
2. Learn something without an imposed, and presctribed timeline. Create a structure of learning without the things that create pressure. Sometimes that's school, and it's whole system of learning that doesn't fit your brain. This is why I suggest to quit that class.
3. Failing can be hard. Doing it once or twice is fine, but after a ehipe it becomes grating at your self esteem. Take breaks. However long you need. Do somethng else for a while and come back fresh with the things you learned elsewhere.
More time. I did poorly in freshman algebra so the math nun pointed me away. Trig in community college was a revelation. The teacher went slowly, did many problems on the board, many, many. Best was tests were frequent and short, with infinite retakes. Real world problems like visiting and then creating a real new floorplan and a budget for a shelter were engaging. Equating math to a gym for the brain helped. Ended up with a math bachelor's despite the nun's opinion.
@futurebird this brings two experiences to mind. One is organic chemistry, which I simply never understood well. Emotionally I knew I was at least as smart as everyone else because I was getting better grades than them in physics, so the class was essentially an exercise in gritting my teeth and telling myself that whatever I was capable of bringing home from it would be useful in some way.
@futurebird speaking as someone who only worked in project based mentorship settings - primarily with inner city HS & undergrad audience (biotech, growth curve math)
I remind the student that this is merely a skill, like metalworking or woodcarving, and in no way represents their internal quality (like 'intelligence', whatever the heck that is). As long as they know how to problem solve, whether they do it the best way, or really quickly under test/competition settings is kind of irrelevant.
This might not be possible in a classroom setting but in the research lab I try to focus struggling students on their personal gains.
In lab, we have ppl at different stages and most are used to being the best. But the best undergrad is never going to be as good as a an ok postdoc and usually not as good as the grad students.
Students get discouraged when techniques that seem easy to others fail for them.
@futurebird I can only share the experience of working with a few of them in vocational college. 3 of 5 of my colleagues just needed a different approach as the one the teacher could offer. One of them came to “it's that easy‽” after solving a few exercises. For the last 2 I also didn't find a good aproach.
@futurebird
I like to remind people that it's more important to compare your current self against you in the past - how far have you come? Rather than comparing yourself to others, who are on different journeys than you are.