Discussion
Sometimes I have a student who has to work much harder than their peers just to keep up with the mathematics. It could be that they have less experience with math, it could be that math is difficult for them, but it can be discouraging to work as hard or harder than everyone else and just get a C-
It can make you feel really small and not very smart. Even if objectively you know that isn't really true.
For those who have been that student what helped you to keep going?
@futurebird Oof, the maths-learning issue. Schooling was always effortless for me: top marks, class placement years ahead of peers, high output, and often my work ended up as the rubric example. Until calculus.
Calc 1 reversed everything. I'd work practice problems every night for hours trying, hopelessly, to crack derivatives. Through miracle or mercy, I managed to pull a 20% up to a C-. Calc 2 put me on academic probation (part-time university for a second bachelor's) and I quit.
I think my problem was instruction and evaluation. The profs worked problems on the board up to the "ta-da" moment. Like a magic trick, no explanation of process, no theory to contextualize the algorithm or its outcome, no material basis, just "answer".
Exams were 20-30 questions, a full sheet each for "show your work" and 90 minutes to work. The work never got marked up, just a top-line score on each, summed to a failure overall. Office hours were during my work day. Independent study got me up to a D+
@futurebird
If textbook samples do not work, find a well verves teacher or student and ask for their way of understanding the issue. It may not be the one that clicks with your though processes, but by asking more people you are more like to find one that lends to your learning skills and style. This is why diversity of minds and backgrounds is so important in education.
@futurebird once you get lost learning math you'll find yourself swirling the drain unless and until you backtrack, repair the damage then get back on the path. figure out when that happened and you'll be able to reboot the kid. worked for me.
Nothing, I stopped doing #Maths altogether ! 😐 cos I could not study or take Maths as a course any further after the shitty grades I got in college (highschool 🇺🇸 ) that's how it mostly works in my part of the world #Pakistan and I learnt it better from the internet, books and khanacademy later on just to satisfy my own curiosity (and to test myself)
@futurebird well, mathematics isnt my subject but the same happens for students who just don't think critically and leave logic behind. In that case I go back to the basics of Logic from deduction and induction when they get the understanding, their perspective changes
@futurebird in my chemistry class at 17 we had an exchange student who's first language was not English. To support them the teacher gave everyone a copy of her full class notes and all the equations for every session. In previous years she had written everything on the board while explaining concepts and expected everyone to copy it all down whilst learning. That year the whole class grade went up because she levelled the playing field for everyone not just the exchange student, people who struggled to write fast or copy accurately could focus on content. She carried on with the strategy in future years afterwards. If there's anything you can do to reduce demands and allow the student to focus on the maths (rather than writing or copying etc) I'd suggest that.
@futurebird On a semi-related note, that may or may not have anything to do with your post (but I think it does)...
I was friendly with someone a few years ago who joined a hiking group, for people of varying abilities, and found that when those at the front stopped to take a few minutes break while waiting for those at the back to catch up, those at the back would never get a break, because the group would set off as soon as the stragglers caught up.
This friend raised this with the group leaders, but they couldn't understand that, with her physical problems (arthritis in knees and hips, and asthma), walking for long periods was both slow and painful, and not getting even a few minutes respite occasionally made things worse.
Back to your post - I always found that maths came easily to me, I was always amongst the first to finish any assignment, and was racing way ahead of everyone else - but I also knew that not everyone worked at that pace, and they wanted a break as well after wrapping their brain around a new concept, so never pushed to go faster.
Hell, some of the people who struggled in maths lessons excelled in art, where I was the one struggling, so I knew exactly how they felt!
@futurebird #Math 1. Ask for help!! Once you are in college/university your education is YOUR responsibility. 2. See answer one and hang out with the smartest students. Have coffee build a relationship and ask questions about the homework/tests/etc. 3. Approach math as a solvable puzzle. Use visuals if that works for your brain. It can be fun and intensely gratifying when you figure out the solution. #Goals #Education #Studying #University
I had help, and when I didn't I dropped out.
But that's catching up after being behind for a while (when I had help, I did end catching up), not indefinitely struggle with a subject, so maybe not the same thing as what you're asking.
@futurebird
I like to remind people that it's more important to compare your current self against you in the past - how far have you come? Rather than comparing yourself to others, who are on different journeys than you are.
@futurebird at the time I started to study physics, I thought I’m too stupid to understand math. It’s been my friends that kept me going - and later, I finished mathematics with a diploma… I wouldn’t have been able to do so if they hadn’t been there.
for me it was the maths teacher who took the extra time to sit down with me and see that I had understood it, even if I wasn't as fast as the others at solving the problems. Just knowing that she knew that I could solve the problems but was just slow was enough.
@futurebird I won't haev a good life if I didn't graduate high school, That's the only thing that kept me going back then.
That's a harsh way to look at it. But, it's not detached from the truth unfortunately.
@futurebird I stopped caring about grades and focused on what I could learn on the subjects. I developed this mentality not long after I started college.
There were subjects I had a low grade but learned more than subjects that had good grades.
@futurebird For me it was focusing on two things:
1. Whether I was good at something or not, was I learning? Maybe I was struggling, but at least I was taking in _some_ new (hopefully practical) information.
2. Focusing on the end goal. The class might be hard, but it was getting me to the next stage - in my education, in my career, in my hobby. The individual grade/test wasn't important, the class was moving me toward where I wanted to be.
@futurebird I didn't. I quit. I had a peer tutor, but it wasn't enough.
I studied art instead, then education...then ...architecture?
I work with math profs. When we drink and I ask them about math they tell me my questions are the best and that I'd be so good at math.
But like, I never opened a textbook after grade 7. In grade 6 Mr. W let the boys play video games while the girls worked from the textbook. In grades 7 & 8 I got D's. In HS the teacher quit 1/2 through so we all passed.
@futurebird I was such bad at mathematics because of a very bad teacher who horribly bullied us when we had questions, especially when we wanted to know more philosophical stuff (like ' did humans always had a zero?'). Unfortunately, nobody helped us in school time.
Very late, when I designed jewelry with paper art, inspired by natural forms, I suddenly learnt that nature is fascinating geometry and mathematics, and that I intuitively used the good old Pythagoras. Ictried to relearn it.
But the
I would add that "keep going" isn't always the right answer. But, if it is, how do you hang on through the (seemingly) unrewarding part of learning?
Set your own bars for success? Know that getting a C- when you started from behind is a big deal and harder than just getting As with little effort since everything has been just how you needed it for years?
I think sometimes when students can work through this stage they do get to the other side. It gets easier.
And yet. It's hard.
@futurebird I always failed the "show your work" bit. My results were correct. My process was "wrong". Luckily I had one teacher who focused on the results. We had a daily 20 problem quiz. Do the work in your head, write the result only on paper. It's my only A in math. I was lucky to scrape by with C or D's most of the time.
That teacher made me realize I can do math. (Although I've had co-workers mystified that my nonsensical -to them- equations allow me to reach the correct result 😂)
Oof. I am exactly this person. 💔
1. Know when to quit.
Sometimes something really isn't for you and that's okay. There are other things that come naturally to all sorts of brains.
2. Learn something without an imposed, and presctribed timeline. Create a structure of learning without the things that create pressure. Sometimes that's school, and it's whole system of learning that doesn't fit your brain. This is why I suggest to quit that class.
3. Failing can be hard. Doing it once or twice is fine, but after a ehipe it becomes grating at your self esteem. Take breaks. However long you need. Do somethng else for a while and come back fresh with the things you learned elsewhere.
More time. I did poorly in freshman algebra so the math nun pointed me away. Trig in community college was a revelation. The teacher went slowly, did many problems on the board, many, many. Best was tests were frequent and short, with infinite retakes. Real world problems like visiting and then creating a real new floorplan and a budget for a shelter were engaging. Equating math to a gym for the brain helped. Ended up with a math bachelor's despite the nun's opinion.
@futurebird this brings two experiences to mind. One is organic chemistry, which I simply never understood well. Emotionally I knew I was at least as smart as everyone else because I was getting better grades than them in physics, so the class was essentially an exercise in gritting my teeth and telling myself that whatever I was capable of bringing home from it would be useful in some way.
@futurebird speaking as someone who only worked in project based mentorship settings - primarily with inner city HS & undergrad audience (biotech, growth curve math)
I remind the student that this is merely a skill, like metalworking or woodcarving, and in no way represents their internal quality (like 'intelligence', whatever the heck that is). As long as they know how to problem solve, whether they do it the best way, or really quickly under test/competition settings is kind of irrelevant.
This might not be possible in a classroom setting but in the research lab I try to focus struggling students on their personal gains.
In lab, we have ppl at different stages and most are used to being the best. But the best undergrad is never going to be as good as a an ok postdoc and usually not as good as the grad students.
Students get discouraged when techniques that seem easy to others fail for them.
@futurebird I can only share the experience of working with a few of them in vocational college. 3 of 5 of my colleagues just needed a different approach as the one the teacher could offer. One of them came to “it's that easy‽” after solving a few exercises. For the last 2 I also didn't find a good aproach.
@futurebird I don’t know if my experience would be relevant because I have a very high effort score. I do not give up easily. But through trial and error I have found that working with other students helps me when books and lectures aren’t helping me get better.