@publicvoit@graz.social

Which I do find a pity because without a real discussion, all the negative aspects will get continued without any impact.

Oh, I suppose this is applicable to ... everything 🙂. When people stops to discuss, then it opens a wide door to any negative aspects. The history full of such examples, like people from Spain didn't discuss the regime of Franko after it's fall and the related problems persisted till 2010 IIRC. Or people didn't discuss the regime of Hitler after it's fall, so it was necessary to wait till the new generated was raised, and than this generation started to asking questions and making a discussions, and only then things changed. Etc...

CC: @benjamineskola@hachyderm.io

@publicvoit I don't share your interpretation of the text on the web page. You say it's very clear on the page and yet we disagree.

The Human Emacs project is for the people who have already discussed LLMs and have reached the conclusion that they don't want to use LLMs, nor their products. Therefore, do not sign on and then discuss the LLMs. Sign up if you are already convinced.

If you want to discuss LLMs, no problem. Don't sign up. But Human Emacs is not "ignoring their impact without any discussion". We have been discussing LLMs for years. It's all around us. It's inescapable. Surely there must be a place somewhere for the people who have reached the conclusion that they don't want LLMs in their Emacs.

As for "terrible": Of course it's a value judgement. But it being a value judgement does not result in inability to judge. If you don't see how LLMs are terrible, then you have reached a different conclusion than other people. Which is fine. But these other people still get to act upon the conclusion they reached, obviously. People disagreeing with each other and acting upon this disagreement is all around us.

I understand that if you don't see how LLMs are terrible then everything that follows makes no sense. As for myself, I've kept a long list of bookmarks over the last few years. Every now and then I still add new links. I think it would be fair to say that clearly there are some people who think that LLMs are terrible, even if you don't share this opinion.

@publicvoit @alex I define what terrible means to me. Simple as that. What's so complicated about that?

@publicvoit I didn't say that. What I did say is that they consider these technologies a net negative in ethical, social and environmental terms. It makes sense to me, when we're talking ethics and principles, to not have them be open to negotiation, but that is not the same as cancel culture or political correctness.

Are they taking the “my way or the highway” route? Probably, but it's them who will take the highway if their demands are not met. They're just asking for a reason to stay.