Post by @ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz

@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz 6 hr. ago

I've been invited to speak at a *very* prestigious school. But their policy is to provide dinner and standard class rail fare to a reasonably close city ... and no fee.

Should I accept?

(Added in edit: the invitation is probably from a student society, who will therefore have virtually no funds, and certainly no discretion.)

It is a *very* prestigious school, and I could do it for exposure and the CV. But as @virtuosew points out ...

People die of exposure.

So ... should I accept? Or should I say that my policy, now that I'm reasonably established, is not to give unpaid talks to well-funded institutions.

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Henry Edward Hardy

@hhardy01@mastodon.social 1 hr. ago

Is it a student society, which undoubtedly could pay you a fee, or is this an insttitutional policy, or a "policy". Ask to see a copy of this "policy". Ask others who have spoken there.

Set a standard rate and stick to it. You can't eat prestige.

@ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew

Colin the Mathmo

@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz 58 min. ago

@hhardy01 Having been adjacent to similar student societies in similar institutions I can totally believe that they have no budget for fees, have to provide receipts for expenses, and have been told from the purse-holder that there are no other funds for any reason.

I'm surprised that you can assert so confidently that they must be able to pay a fee ... having been effectively inside equivalent organisations I would not have that confidence.

CC: @virtuosew

Srinivas Nambirajan

@srinivas@mathstodon.xyz 2 hr. ago

@ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew Maybe develop a programming for such invitations, that is different from your usual talk? One possibility is a workshop - an open mic perhaps - geared more toward getting students to perform with your feedback, and your participation completely at your discretion.

Colin the Mathmo

@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz 1 hr. ago

@srinivas An interesting idea for something I could develop, though it's not really a solution to the problem in this case.

CC: @virtuosew

Srinivas Nambirajan

@srinivas@mathstodon.xyz 1 hr. ago

@ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew I should be clearer:
Problem: should you accept?
Potential soln: yes, but to a different format.

Perhaps other reasons why this may not solve your particular instance. But I value outreach to students and (what I learned) of Bollobas' work. So had to chime in. Hope you find a nice soln!

Colin the Mathmo

@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz 38 min. ago

@srinivas I have other presentations and formats that I use in other context, and in other circumstances I would consider pushing them towards one of those.

But it doesn't address the main point here. They're asking for my time, but are not offering to pay for it. That's a sticking point for multiple reasons.

CC: @virtuosew

Verity Allan

@vla22@wandering.shop 3 hr. ago

@ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew If it's a fee-paying school, then they should definitely be paying you.

Colin the Mathmo

@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz 3 hr. ago

@vla22 I suspect this is for a student society, and they generally have neither funds nor discretion.

CC: @virtuosew

Verity Allan

@vla22@wandering.shop 3 hr. ago

@ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew I mean you could set your fee at minimum wage - which means unless you live quite close to them, the train ticket'll be more expensive.

Martin Whitworth

@Martin_Whitworth@mathstodon.xyz 4 hr. ago

@virtuosew @ColinTheMathmo Do you do this charitably to spread your message, or is this your profession? If the latter, don’t do it to raise your profile - you already have that and should now be getting paid for that. I do presentations because it raises my company’s profile for contract work, but they pay me. As a freelancer, this is how you earn your money and you shouldn’t give away your product for free. If they put it online, maybe ask for a percentage of advertising revenue?

Colin the Mathmo

@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz 3 hr. ago

@Martin_Whitworth It is my profession, and I don't need the exposure ... but I expect I will enjoy the evening.

Just ... tricky.

CC: @virtuosew

Colin Beveridge

@icecolbeveridge@mathstodon.xyz 3 hr. ago

@ColinTheMathmo @Martin_Whitworth @virtuosew I'm with Martin here: if well-established speakers go about doing this sort of gig for free(ish), it makes it harder for less-established speakers to get paid. "Who are you to ask for £x00? [Y] did it for travel and dinner."

Colin the Mathmo

@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz 3 hr. ago

@icecolbeveridge That is, to some extent, my major concern. But equally, I think this is probably (though it's not crystal clear) for a student society. Generally they have no money, and no discretion.

So I do worry about setting (low) expectations for other, less established speakers.

CC: @Martin_Whitworth @virtuosew

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Richard Loxley

@richardloxley@mastodon.richardloxley.com 6 hr. ago

@ColinTheMathmo I’ve done free stuff if I think I’ll enjoy the experience. When it stops being fun, I decline doing them for free.

I’ve also found a good answer to “our company policy is X” is “well my company policy is Y”. People who get off on following policy seem more likely to accept that as an answer than a more logical justification!

Colin the Mathmo

@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz 9 min. ago

@richardloxley A starting point here is that it won't be for free ... their offer, if I accept, will cost me money.

I'll be travelling further than their travel allowance will cover, and I'll need to spend a night away. And probably two lunches.

Plus a minimum of 24 hours away from home, probably closer to 40 hours.

I'll be pointing all this out to them, and then say that unless they can cover all that, I'm deeply honoured to have been considered but must decline the opportunity.

Philippa Cowderoy

@flippac@types.pl 6 hr. ago

@ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew If you (very reasonably) go with the latter, be clear that less established people need paying too!

(and yeah, the rest is expenses, and this makes sense inside academia for networking, but...)

Philippa Cowderoy

@flippac@types.pl 6 hr. ago

@ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew (FWIW, I've arguably been a bit of a scab myself, in that I get enough to network on this basis via welfare - the "nearest train station" would have to be pretty near for me not to at least ask whoever's running it how to cover the last leg with a hint of "help on day plz?")

Pozorvlak

@pozorvlak@mathstodon.xyz 4 hr. ago

@flippac @ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew unless the "reasonably close city" is within a shortish walk of the school (e.g. Windsor Riverside for Eton) then I think it would be Very Much Not On not to offer a lift from the station.

Philippa Cowderoy

@flippac@types.pl 4 hr. ago

@pozorvlak @ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew And if it's that close then someone to at least meet you should that be needed, yeah

(...it's a Good Idea if that kind of thing doesn't need clearing with a disability office, or to put it another way the clearing process is likely to be an undue burden)

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Eleanor

@eleanorrees@mas.to 6 hr. ago

@ColinTheMathmo @virtuosew They'll be indirectly making money out of you. (Part of these schools' marketing strategy is that their pupils get access to interesting people.)

You could ask for a donation to an educational charity?

Colin the Mathmo

@ColinTheMathmo@mathstodon.xyz 3 hr. ago

@eleanorrees It's for a student society ... I doubt they'll be making money out of me at the level of the school.

CC: @virtuosew