Discussion
Random question for the Fediverse: anyone here used/have opinions on HEAT PUMP CLOTHES DRYERS? Would need to be 120V, not 240V (no available wiring).
(seriously considering just biting the bullet and getting one to replace the old gas dryer).
#clothesdryers #heatpump #electrification #appliances #climate
We have a apartment/narrow Whirlpool set. But our dryer is 240v. The loads are smaller than full-size units I've had previously, but it's workable.
Dry cycle takes ~2 hours, which is fine unless we need to be awake to take it out promptly (our cheap power starts 9pm).
If the condenser filter is cleaned, it needs a 2nd cycle (this is like a mini-split filter; not the lint trap).
I've read reviews of 120v dryers, and they seem to take even longer.
We've had it 4 years. The only problem was the washer door latch needed replacement under warranty.
The dryer had a noise like a squealing alternator belt for a while... but then the noise went away(!).
But no failures of the heat pump or anything.
@NNN Houseplants!
@NNN Thanks. Our gas dryer takes awhile as well, so may be a wash.
@ai6yr Miele T1: Works fine. Too many beeps. Rather picky about cleaning the lint filters.
Have the Miele T1 dryer and love it. Buy a second plinth filter though so you can swap it out when you get the error and just clean the other one at leisure.
I have no idea about the 120 v 240 but two of the places I stayed in in Portugal recently had heat pump dryers and even setting them on delicate they absolutely fried my clothes.
I generally hang dry anything except undies and socks. I'll try to wait for a sunny day to line dry towels, sheets, or pants but will put them in the dryer if I must.
At home even in winter, I mostly hand dry tops. inside or out, depending on outside moisture.
@MCDuncanLab @ai6yr Mine caught fire.
@FeloniousPunk @MCDuncanLab Heat pump dryer, or clothing?!?!
@MCDuncanLab Yikes on frying your clothes!
(that said, I line dry most of my stuff... this is mostly for the family which won't line dry)
Well at the first place, some of it was me not being able to read the instructions, I ultimately downloaded the full manual and it turned out I'd run the dry only cycle without a prior wash-not clear from the quick guide.
At the second place, I read the instructions in English and the dry cycle was way hotter than what I expected.
Also the machine said it would take 3 hr to dry, I gave up after 45 min and hung the super hot things in my room and they were dry by morning.
@ai6yr I looked into one when I put in my heat pump water heater, but the appliance guys up weren't overly enthusiastic about them & made many comments about their lack of reliability. My cousin in Utah has one (an LG, I think), and says hers is OK - takes a LOT longer to dry things - and she's in a dry climate. She ends up hanging a lot of her partially dry clothes up just so she can get the next load into the dryer.
@ai6yr There's a whole thread on that (among energy geeks) here: https://bsky.app/profile/jgkoomey.bsky.social/post/3mxceqdtw6s24
@ai6yr we were going to switch and do the water heater too, but we don't have enough amperage from the street (only 120) so just ac/heat and cooking all on electric.
I don't have one myself, but I have a friend who does. He is really happy with it and thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread.
@ai6yr I just looked at the search I have set up again, the Miele all seem to be 240 V.... There seem to be a few 120V models by Samsung and GE... But all in the $2000 range!!!? I was in Germany 2 weeks ago, friends showed me their new heat pump dryer they had gotten for $600, including tax....
When I see prices here in the US and compare to Europe it seems we get screwed all the time, no real competition.
@ai6yr @carstenfranke I installed a Miele Heat Pump dryer when we moved to a new house 4 years ago. It has been great. It’s definitely 120v on a standard (5-15) outlet, so no worries about electrical
@ai6yr @carstenfranke The biggest bonus over conventional dryers is you don’t have a duct leaking conditioned air to outside 24/7, then dumping an enormous CFM when it’s running. An equal volume of air has to infiltrate back inside from somewhere else, so a HP is step number one in airsealing and improving your home’s envelope/insulation.
The next biggest pro for me is it’s supposed to be gentler on clothes.
@ai6yr Miele makes a couple Heat Pump models, can't vouch for how well they work.
@ai6yr "gas dryer" heck no clothesline before that, dude. Dryers have LINT. We used to carry that stuff as kindling. You do not want fire near there.
@ai6yr we switched to a LG heat pump dryer about a year ago, it works well and has significantly reduced our power bill.
There are only a few 120v dryers on the US market.
@ai6yr here is a 120V 15A Miele... It is not on their website ...
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Miele-T1-Heat-Pump-Dryer-120-cu-ft-Stackable-Ventless-Electric-Dryer-Lotus-White-ENERGY-STAR/5013768983#no_universal_links
@carstenfranke Thanks! I am going to keep an eye on all of these through Black Friday season...
I had an all-in-one washer dryer which was 120V and used a heat pump.
It seemed like a neat idea! Throw clothes in, come out dry!
It was: expensive.
It was: slow.
Worst part: if you did not take the clothes out after the cycle ended? They would stink.
If you did take them out? Essentially, they would be damp, yet kinda still hot, and the remaining moisture would evaporate away and it would be: OKish?
Eventually that washer-dryer ended up with some friends, they purchased: a cheap dryer (I think used?) and simply used the combo washer/heat pump dryer as a front loading washer. That seemed as if it was better than attempting to use the all-in-one's heat pump.
@teajaygrey Interesting... Thanks for the data point!
Admittedly, I purchased that a long time ago, circa 2005?
At the time, it seemed as if the all-in-one was sort of cutting edge? Front loading washing machines were still relatively rare on the market. It was also the first "HE" detergent washer I ever owned. Previously such things (all in one with heat pumps) were perhaps used on boats I guess or places where volumetric space concerns were important?
The washing portion seemed good! It is possible that the heat pump stuff has improved? I was grateful to be able to use it in multiple locations without 220V outlets at least! That was another win for it; yet it mostly seemed as if it was a pretty OK washer and a mostly not really good dryer.
@teajaygrey Ah, well, that's 20 year old technology then... wonder how things are now.
@ai6yr out top-of-the-line samsung has been.....meh. It replaced an old 3KW resistive unit, which frankly dried the clothes better in half the time and could accurately determine when the clothes were dry and switch off. It was hugely inefficient. The Samsung doesn't seem able to accurately decide how long to dry for, typically deciding clothes need 2hrs, revising this to 1hr and leaving then most. If we manually set a 2hr fixed cycle, clothes are*usually* dry.
@ai6yr It is definitely cheaper to run, as it uses less than a third of the energy of the resistive dryer (which in your case wouldn't be an option anyway!) but it can be pretty slow and it definitely is more of a pain to clean (it comes with brush for the cooling coil, which you need to lie on the floor to see properly)
@Turbo_Steve Thanks, good data point!
@ai6yr I'm in Ireland, so its 240VAC. I bought a new pair washer and heat pump dryer. Previously the house only had a washer, and a clothesline out back. Usually I just dried my clothes by hanging them on chair backs and door handles around the house. But I finally got tired of that, and the new units I bought are more energy efficient than the old washer, and the dryer stacks on top of the washer so it all still fits in the tiny laundry space.
@ai6yr for reference the dryer model is DV90TA040AN and the washer is WW90TA046AN. They were Samsung's high tier in 2020 (but below the wifi top tier models) that I got on sale in 2021. Still running fine, no issues.
I wish heat pump dryers had been a thing when I had to replace my old units back in LA. Just makes so much sense.
@ai6yr the previous house I rented had a combo washer/dryer in the kitchen. Its drying function was miserably bad, just wasted a lot of electricity to yield damp clothes. Would not recommend. Most combo units perform much worse than separate dedicated units.
@ai6yr oh one more note: a lot of writeups mention the heatpump dryer has an internal tank to collect water, that needs manual emptying. If you already have a washing machine nearby, you can also fit a hose to dump the water into the washer's waste pipe. That's how mine is setup, no tank hassles. They usually don't include the Y adapter you need tho. Something like this: https://www.amazon.ie/Noble-Universal-Connector-Dishwasher-Compatible/dp/B0D49K9C5Q
@ai6yr How about an old electric dryer. The motor is probably 120v and you could use a heat gun like your coffee roaster.
@stevewfolds Old electric not as efficient, and definitely $ in running costs.
@ai6yr my opinion is why the hell would you use anything else? Either tumble or cabinet (or entire wardrobe with a dehumidifier)
@ai6yr I don’t know about the 120v/220v thing, but I had the Miele washer & dryer — I really overspent on it, but it worked quite well. The only real issue is that it tends to dump a lot of heat back into the room - which you might not care about if it’s in the basement, but in a central location, in the summer… it’s…. Not optimal. Thankfully the furnace heat pump and air exchanger did their jobs, and kept it from getting uncomfortable.
@JustinDerrick @ai6yr
Here in MN the heat staying in the house is a neat feature for 7 months of the year... The old exhaust unit pushed a lot of warm air from the house to the outside, and the pipe was a terrible cold bridge.
Really saves us a lot of money here in the cold climate
@JustinDerrick Oooh, that's interesting. Second person mentioning this problem. I have a heat pump water heater in the garage, lol, this can be balanced out.
@ai6yr I just replaced my washer and dryer with a combo 120V heat-pump unit about a month ago. I like it; no regrets so far. My clothes don't feel as dry immediately at the end of a default cycle as they did with my previous electric dryer, but 1) they seem noticeably dryer within like a minute after I've opened the door, for reasons I don't understand; 2) I've been trying to hang-dry more things anyway; 3) my housemates have been just running the dryer for longer than the default cycle and they seem happy with how effective that is.
Things I learned from my research before buying this:
I found the information at https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/heat-pump-dryer/ particularly informative about what the heat pump is actually doing in this configuration and what pros and cons they have. I didn't use their list of recommended models, though.
@ai6yr opinion: they’re a super neat idea. but … has nobody yet made one that’s set up as an air handler for a preexisting mini-split compressor?
that seems like such an obvious win-win for home appliance integration …
now if only appliance durability was increasing over time, like technology suggests it should. rather than decreasing year by year like capitalism demands …
@cmdrmoto Yeah, this is why we've been using the same 1990's dryer for a long while. Finally getting to an end of its life (with many replacements of components, mind you, I've rebuilt the thing three times).
@VE7WYC @ai6yr @cmdrmoto When I lived in sweden the apartment block had shared (book your time) washing machines and best of all massive drying room in the basement. This had basically 16 clothes lines string in it a heat fans. Was amazing, and rather lovely to do your washing in the warm whilst it was all ice rain and wind outside
@ai6yr I’ve looked into them, and as soon as I can find one that fits in my tiny laundry closet I’m going to get one. (Hasn’t been a priority so it’s lingered for a while, it my gas dryer is dying and the project is moving) This is part of my de-gasification project, and tbh I would say absolutely do it.
The one I just recommended (Miele T1 and the M1 washing machine has a very low footprint. It's smaller than the washer and dryer we used to have in our tiny laundry closet and we were even able to add shelves next to it after the replacement.
@wordshaper Yeah, same here... I think the gas dryer needs to be replaced (1990's dryer, but it's on its last legs despite my replacing everything).
@ai6yr @wordshaper As long as it's nice out a clothes line works well.
@darwinwoodka @wordshaper Yes, I have almost moved to 100% line drying. But, the rest of the family will not line dry. (well, I can line dry my son's stuff, if I'm doing his laundry I do whatever I want, lol).
@ai6yr my open question is whether to get just a heat pump dryer or replace the washer too and go with an all in one machine. It’s just me and my husband so we don’t do enough laundry that having two separate machines for parallel use is necessary. YMMV and all that.
@wordshaper @ai6yr FWIW, here's a link to NYT's "Wirecutter" recommendo site. It doesn't give me the option to create a "gift link" (as I can do with news stories), so I apologize in advance if you can't access it. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/samsung-bespoke-ai-vented-laundry-combo-review/
@wordshaper Yeah, very good question! And really, it's not so much parallel use if you're bounded by one machine or the other. (except in my case, where I frequently wash my stuff and hang it outdoors on a line, and everyone else's stuff gets put in the dryer).
@ai6yr @djsundog I had a bosch for a long while. and my all-in-one now is heat pump based. the biggest recommendation I have is "check the airflow on the room where the unit will be held" and augment it if needed. We run a circulating fan to swap the exchanged air. But after a few loads, drying takes forever because the room warms up too much. but I adore my all-in-one and am glad we got the heat pump based variant.
@ai6yr I've had a miele for a couple years. The main difference I notice between it and a normal dryer is that the clothes come out... dry enough? But they are humid, very humid. If you fold them right away, no problem, but if you leave them in a pile (or in the dryer), they can get musty.
On the other hand, I still smile every time I turn it on, and a few seconds later, I hear the sound of water pouring into my laundry sink. I'm so used to dryers requiring air vents that it continues to be novel to me that this dryer simply extracts water from the clothes.