Post by @serge@babka.social

Social justice and inclusion are good things. I believe strongly that we want to make a more just society that gives people equal opportunities and provides a safety net. This is my view as a disabled person, and as a Jew.

And because I believe in these values, it makes me very angry and upset when I see those very values and goals hijacked by people who use them as a weapon against others to harm, shame, and silence.

I've seen this happen several times and I've seen communities genuinely perplexed at how to respond to it.

This video is by someone who generally criticizes right wing oligarchs and tech bros, who lives in a post-soviet country. I haven't even bothered to look at the comments because I can imagine how toxic they'll be, on both sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2r_JnfaOSg

#SocialJustice

The Disaster of the Last Ditch Lesbian Bar

YouTube

#socialjustice

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Robbie

@robbienorlyn@babka.social 55 min. ago

@serge I see this all of the time and I see these people he refers to always poisoning the well of well-meaning communities.
Everything is literally about them. Every single thing.
In the process of feeding their narcissism they trivialize the actual needs of people with disabling conditions. They even shut them out because they insist on not striving to include others but make the environment including themselves at the expense of losing others.
Also, the endless focus on gender and race reveals their intentions more than anything else.

Serge from Babka

@serge@babka.social 52 min. ago

@robbienorlyn

I think that gender and race are merely effective tools in their mind. These people would use anything if it served their purpose. It's a way to twist and distort worthy causes.

Noam writes

@noam@libranet.de 2 hr. ago

@serge Sounds about right. Some of the left has descended into this bullshit - although I argue that a lot of this is in no way leftist. But not all, thankfully.

Serge from Babka

@serge@babka.social 2 hr. ago

@noam

His argument at the end is that this isn't leftism either.

It's merely that it's tolerated there and then (my words not his) The No Asshole Rule applies, which is to say that the only people left are those that either tolerate it, or else they're part of it.

ArneBab

@ArneBab@rollenspiel.social 2 hr. ago

@serge "should avoid communal spaces" is a pretty bad take on that.

Shitstorms about one day where you can’t be there may be going overboard, but the video turning that completely around and basically telling disabled people to leave society is worse.

And when he said that asking an audience not to chatter during an event is bad was when I stopped watching the video.

I don’t care whom else he criticizes or what side he’s on: he’s not weighing different needs but just telling folks to go away.

Serge from Babka

@serge@babka.social 2 hr. ago

@ArneBab

You're very lucky you haven't seen how this phenomenon has destroyed spaces and communities.

I have.

Your response to this is honestly, sincerely, as a friend, disingenuous because you're putting words in my mouth and his mouth and then basing your response on that.

I'm a person with *severe* auditory processing issues. I wear headphones almost all day, even in the house because of it, and find going out without them nearly impossible. But even then, I wouldn't expect an entire 1,000 person+ event to not speak for my benefit.

Accommodations are important and I've both asked for and benefited from them, but so is taking ownership and steps to help yourself.

ArneBab

@ArneBab@rollenspiel.social 1 hr. ago

@serge I didn’t put words in his mouth.

I just repeated what he said.

I didn’t put any words in your mouth.

And yes, I think you can expect people not to chatter during a podium discussion.

If this were just a meeting hall without event, that would be different, but the example isn’t.

And yes, I have not yet seen a space or community destroyed by this.

He’s not saying "find steps to help yourself" (at least not until I stopped listening) but "keep away".

Serge from Babka

@serge@babka.social 1 hr. ago

@ArneBab

There are three simultanious conversations going on here, which is why I think things seem tense.

There's:

1. A point about a specific video and its presentation, which is snarky and if you don't know this presenter, can come off harshly. If you've watched him rip Musk, Bezos, and various right wing politicians apart for nearly a decade in his argument for more left wing/progressive politics, this video lands differently.

2. There's a discussion of what happens when communities are destroyed by people like this. I can tell you I've seen tech communities destroyed by them, I've seen hackerspaces destroyed, and this almost happened to Babka when I opened it up to volunteers early on.

3. A discussion about disability and accommodations where almost any side can be seen as "wrong". I'm often the first one to stand up and talk about disabilities and encourage people to use disability services. This isn't that.

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ArneBab

@ArneBab@rollenspiel.social 1 hr. ago

@serge Point is: yes, the outrage about a single day without masks is overblown.

But he’s not saying "we have to weigh needs and find a way to enable everyone to some degree", but that people with disabilities should just keep out.

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