BBC: Responsible or panicked? Meet the people around the world already preparing for crisis
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@stevel Ah, good to know on the Trangia lacking at altitude. I found the canister stoves are great normally but not at altitude and/or in cold weather, when I switch to white gas.
@ai6yr @stevel The Trangia is a classic design because it is an excellent system and has a history of being bulletproof, not because of its performance.
It is surprisingly compact. You put a plastic cup, foldable cooking knife, cutlery, film canister of matches, scourer, 2*dishcloth inside the bowls and then the whole 'cooking' apparatus is self-contained in a medium string-pull bag.
US hikers often look to performance because of altitude and the need to melt snow for water. But such stoves often don't pack down well, and spare parts must be carried. Some stoves handle wind and rain much better than others.
The Trangia is a nice choice for a realistic emergency bag, because it's a good system rather than the best item. Basically it's enough heat for instant soup, for tea or coffee, for pasta or rice if you have the time. It's pretty much bulletproof to use: you can sit it in the middle of a rainstorm and it will run, I've anchored one with tent pegs in the wind and it still made dinner.
One day a company will do a multi fuel stove which is part of a good system. The gas canister systems come closest, and some of those would be a good choice. They tend not to pack down as small as the Trangia. If you are looking at gas canister systems then make sure you are happy with the wind shield and its stance on the ground.
@glent @ai6yr @stevel *cough* I have been very happy with my MSR Whisperlite, which I ran on auto gas during the first year of the pandemic
when I dropped it off at MSR for service the following spring the service tech was like, what did you DO with it, we see expedition stoves that aren't this crusty
I was like, yeah so I maintained my research program living independently out of a pickup truck and cooking on the tailgate with this about three days a week for a year
@ai6yr I usually keep some bottled water but cycle through it, otherwise depend on my camping filters. In hurricane country, we cleaned and filled bathtubs (and then boiled if needed).
I have extra backpacking meals I don’t love but they’re there for power outages plus camp stove; however I don’t prioritize food if I’m leaving. Plus sleeping bags etc for no power or in car in winter.
For leaving; generally hard to replace stuff with the expectation that I can buy basic clothes and food.
@ai6yr I did note that the thing the Northern Europeans are prepping for is war. 🥺☹️
@CaramelizedShallots @ai6yr
I believe first official instructions from our government here in Finland came in 1966 to keep a modest ”home reserve”, so nothing new here. In case of winter storm taking electricity or water pipe freezing or similar, you have to have some reserve. Business as usual.
@CaramelizedShallots @ai6yr
We seem to have most of the instructions in english as well… https://www.suomi.fi/guides/preparedness/checklist
@ai6yr Japan's disaster readiness day is annual. It's not new. It is a bit weird that places like the U.K. are doing it as well, though.
@ai6yr My concern is that these articles overwhelm the actual government advice, which can be very different.
Compare the UK-originated advice with my local advice on contents of the emergency kit for the most likely disaster.
https://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/plan-prepare/before-a-fire-be-prepared/emergency-kits/emergency-kits/
Note the cotton full coverage clothing, boots, and a 100% woollen blanket.
@ai6yr Not shown: firearms & ammo stockpiled.
If you read 2A discussion boards for amusement, as I am wont to do, there’s A LOT of discussion about what to have for the SHTF scenario. (TF = “the fan.”) Surprising number of commenters suggest 22LR: light=easy to carry lots of rounds if you have to relocate on foot, fairly quiet=attracts less attention, good for small game. Frequent citation to the compact 22 survival arms issued to military pilots.
V few shotshell fans (weight, ltd range).
@ai6yr Or. Costco shopper? I naturally have loads of supplies in the house - we're lucky to have space for them. Mostly because I hate shopping and don't want to spend the time thinking about stocking up on things all the time. A year of paper towels and laundry detergent. Check. Though granted none of it is in a "go bag." :)
@johnefrancis @ai6yr Ha! During the early days of Covid I forgot that I had disinfectant and somehow ended up with gallons of bleach. I did end up giving a bunch of it away. 😊 😊 :)
@ai6yr Years ago we had back to back snowstorms. Hubby had a SV meeting and managed to fly out to SFO in between storms. Many people were stuck in their homes for days. Colleagues asked Hubby if he was worried about his wife. Hubby: LOL. She's a Costco Girl. She can hunker down for a year without batting an eye. <g>
@ai6yr Especially as we have enough Bubbies Pickles and Major Grey's Mango Chutney - the important stuff. 😊 😊 Our local Indian store rant out of it, and it annoyed me how expensive it was to order online, so I ordered about 2 dozen jars because it lasts forever and we'll eat it. :)
Disappointing that the BBC decided to interview people doing prepping, rather than talking about actual disaster preparedness.
@michael_w_busch @ai6yr sadly that doesn't surprise me...
@michael_w_busch @Lazarou This seems like a socially sensitive BBC piece not to scare people about disaster preparedness, more than a disaster preparedness story. (like "look at these strange people!")
LOL on the lady with fabric softener and deodorant in the disaster stash. Also, mouthwash.
@ai6yr
Yeah, that looks like a sampling of the random crap a couponer picks up. The rest of her stuff is more sensible, though a lot of it requires hot water to make it edible.
But anyone advertising themself as a "leadership coach" is probably at a bit of disadvantage when it comes to make good decisions in general 😂
@me_valentijn Six years worth of hair shampoo... We've been there before 😂 (couponing)
@ai6yr Or the Bounce? Static and smelling nice is the least of your worries
@ai6yr It's better than the time I bought an unopened 72-hour-kit from an Estate sale and got it home to find it consisted of two MREs and 7 sets of Temple garments. I get having spiritual comfort items, but if your God told you to prepare food for the apocalypse, which AFAIK is a thing that goes along with those garments, that probably isn't exactly following the command.
@ai6yr we recommend dollar store sized containers of detergent, fabric sheets, personal care items like mouthwash, toothpaste, travel toilet paper etc...
(a change of underwear and a deck of cards)
If you have to evacuate those comfort items can make a difficult time a little easier to bear.
the #CERT Basic Class manual has several pages of suggestions for emergency supplies
pages 1-14 through 1-17
although we always have to laugh at the "extra medication" suggestions.
Most people struggle just getting their regular Rx filled let alone getting "extra" 🙄
https://www.ready.gov/sites/default/files/2019.CERT_.Basic_.PM_FINAL_508c.pdf
@ai6yr
1-34 through 1-37 has an actual checklist dealie
@MsMerope That reminds me, I need some travel size toothpaste, ran out. I guess I should see if they have it at the dollar store. (I know they have it at Target, but I so rarely go into stores, lol)
@ai6yr and we always tell the story of the high school kid who was interviewed about his evacuation from the Camp Fire.
I didn't have much time so I grabbed my laundry hamper
????
well, all I knew all my favorite clothes would be in the wash....
@ai6yr next time you update your glasses, put the old pair in your evacuation kit and go to AAA for some good old fashioned paper maps.
@ai6yr I'd at least have toothpaste and a collection of toothbrushes. It's also good for barter.
"Dan" in the US is your typical probably ex-military or military inspired prepper. Looks like an actual informed first aid kid.
@ai6yr once upon a time I had an old friend and ex coworker who gave me a handmade survival kit for my birthday one year. He had a few(still airtight) 7.62×39mm ammunition boxes from the Vietnam era that he turned into survival kits. Each was packed up with nearly identical supplies as 'Dan' here, but it was all packed inside cool ammo boxes with US military stamps on the side.
Looking at that first aid kit: Now I am wondering how many of the BBC's viewers will recognize a stop-the-bleed kit on sight. Or if it would make sense for them to stock it.
Is everything in the Netherlands in glass? LOL. That would mostly be destroyed in an earthquake in California.
(we'd lose a lot of stuff we have canned here 😬)
ps. pasta sucks for disasters and camping, takes forever to cook and requires extra water, unless you are willing to human sump the water as a valuable resource. (which I recommend). i.e. don't use it to cook your pasta and then dump it out, that's all that extra water you just wasted... use it as soup.
@ai6yr
Also… on a side note: Glass jars can be opened & closed multiple times. No need to consume the whole content at once. Also jars can be re-used as multi-purpose sealable storage containers. And they can be used for preservation of home-made foods.
(Earth quakes are not that common over here ;)
@ai6yr
You're not wrong on that pasta/water/cooking thing. But then again: Have you never seen kids eating the noodle brick from Asian instant noodles right away out of the package?
@ai6yr
Hak is a Dutch brand which cans food that is mostly grown locally. It's cheap and familiar, often on sale as well 😂
I also like that that glass jars avoid the problem with can liners disintegrating.
With all the tropical storms we were through this summer, I made sure we were well stocked up on bulgur.
You can cook it adequately to eat just by soaking it in water a while - even cold water if you have no power or heat source.
Chop tomatoes and cucumbers into it, ideally with some parsley and mint, and you've got a big bowl of tabouli. If you have a way to cook, it's just minutes to make it into a pilaf - throw in some red lentils for balanced protein. Delicious and healthy.
@ai6yr When people want pasta for emergencies, I recommend instant couscous. As long as someone can boil water, five or so minutes later, the couscous is ready. I’ve made it in a hotel room with a travel kettle and thermos. (Instant rice, red lentils, and boiled eggs are some other things friends and I have done with a thermos setup.)
Dehydrated pastas are more easily available these days for making backpacking meals etc, but I haven’t tried one of those yet.
@ai6yr Counterpoint: angelhair is my backpacking go-to. Light to carry, cooks in 3 min., all carbs, toss with Mediterranean sardines (canned with olives etc) olive oil, knife-shaved parm.
@ai6yr You have to buy the right kind of pasta for camping. I buy the 2-minute boil angel hair pasta from TJs. Perfect for backpacking. I use most of the water again for (powdered) pesto sauce or whatever else I have with it (like dehydrated veggies), drink the last couple of swallows if needed. WAY better than most of the prepackaged backpacking meals.
There was a year at the hiking summer camp. I went to many times where they tried out millet as a dinner staple.
It was a fucking disaster because we cooked with number 10 tins over a campfire. The stuff just burned Compared to this stuff, we usually prepared and I don’t remember what it was but definitely was something that was easy to cook, and it might’ve been packaged camping meals
LOL
"In late 2025, Dutch authorities launched a campaign that instructed households to have 72 hours' worth of supplies, much like UK authorities have just done."
Apparently the rest of the civilized world is not like the US... 72 hours minimum. More like a week to 2 weeks in hurricane country. It's better to have a week in California, recovery times are not 3 days for disasters anymore (if they ever were).
@ai6yr I have ‘online pen pal’ in the UK that I chat with regularly. They aren’t exactly preparing for natural disasters, they are preparing for war. They think Putin is out of control and world war 3 is coming soon.
@SteveInVentura @ai6yr
Yeah, that was the reasoning stated for the Dutch recommendations as well. Russia is very aggressively probing the EU for weaknesses lately, and will likely exploit those at some point.
Cyber/infrastructure attacks are pretty much guaranteed. More so with Trump now putting pressure on the EU to be nice to Putin, with the expectation of curtailing a European military reaction when there are attacks.
The biggest Dutch supermarket chain was taken down by a recent cyber attack. For a couple weeks they were operating like it was 1980 again, and it took several days before they could even manage that much (like get on the damned phone and call the distrubition center with a list of what a store needs to restock).
Something hitting every chain at the same time would be a massive clusterfuck. They aim to operate with no excess stock to maximize profits, so it's critical that everyone has their own stockpile when possible.
@me_valentijn @SteveInVentura @ai6yr
It may look like Russia is probing for weaknesses but I'm not so sure. As for exploiting found weaknesses I think that is highly unlikely.
Russia is currently struggling with the Ukraine war. They are losing equipment and people faster than they can replace them. All they have to show for five years against an initially poorly prepared country is a stalled front and lots of losses both at the front and within Russia.
In their weakened state do you really think Russia would start a second front with a powerful alliance with superior equipment that may also jump into the Ukraine war once they are pushed over that military line?
I would venture that Russia is trying to make people think this so they are not so generous in giving Ukraine munitions and equipment. If you can get a population to think they are about to be attacked they are going to keep their stuff for themselves.
@HikerGeek @SteveInVentura @ai6yr
Drone incursions into protected airspace are a regular occurrence in Europe, and have been traced back to Russian ships. They also spend a lot of time lurking near important undersea cables. Various forms of espionage are common on the ground, and there has already been quite a bit of hacking linked to Russian outfits with ties to the Kremlin.
These may not make the news in North America, but they certainly do in Europe.
No, I do not expect Russian soldiers to parachute into Amsterdam. But cyber/infrastructure attacks are low-effort with the potential for a high yield.
@me_valentijn @SteveInVentura @ai6yr
Again any high yield attack on a European country would push them over the line to start military action. Possibly pull in other countries in solidarity.
I don't think Russian has much that could effectively stop flights of F-35's coming in to destroy whatever they wanted. They might decide to attack Russia's Ukraine front lines so that Ukraine can take back significant territory.
I believe that the US is currently safe from domestic Iranian attack. The Iranians know that the American people hate this war and don't support it but an attack on American soil would instantly change that and unify the US against them.
I think similarly Russia knows that too serious of an attack on a European country could seriously backfire like that.
@HikerGeek @SteveInVentura @ai6yr
No government in Europe is willing to risk that Putin doesn't mean it, especially while he is invading another country. And the problem is that the line gets pushed a lot, precisely because none of those countries want to get dragged into an active war.
Thus, we make various preperations for the nonviolent attacks which can either be a massive pain in the ass or act as a prelude to something more serious.
Literally the only political entities who are not taking the threat seriously in Europe are the ones which have ties to Russian money.
Be as unprepared for a very well-established threat as you want. Europe has gone a different way.
@me_valentijn @SteveInVentura @ai6yr
Please do NOT take what I say as I don't believe in prepping. I am very into it. I teeter on the brink of buying my own freeze dryer to prep my own stores. If the machines were a little less expensive and didn't need so much maintenance I would.
To quote Dune: "Fear is the mind killer". Being afraid of Russia attacking has to be kept in appropriately weighed perspective or mistaken decisions will be made.
@HikerGeek @me_valentijn @SteveInVentura The current highest risks here in SoCal is: wildfire during wind event; power outages during heatwave; heatwaves (in general); depending on your terrain, flooding/landslides; earthquakes always; if you are on the coast, coastal impacts. Supply chain issues can be a thing (see: pandemic), but not generally "are you going to starve to death" but more inflation-related (ie more and more expensive, or non-available). The food supplies here are more San Andreas level earthquake that disrupts supply chains for longer than just a couple of weeks. The biggest issue (aside from the wildfires/heatwaves/flooding) is SoCal's water supply being piped in from Northern California, which has a lot of stuff in between that has to work (pumps, tunnels, etc. etc. etc.)
@ai6yr @me_valentijn @SteveInVentura
I think that water is the hardest thing to prep. Both your body and your food need it on a daily basis. It is also very heavy. Most Americans can coast on their fat for weeks. Without water you're done in a week or less.
@HikerGeek @me_valentijn @SteveInVentura LOL I like reminding my Wilderness First Aid students that it takes about 6 months to starve to death. Calories are good (so you can think straight), but you aren't going to die right away from not eating, lol.
@HikerGeek @me_valentijn @SteveInVentura Water in the US west in summer is a "die today" kind of thing.
@ai6yr clearly the Trangia camping stove flags the owner as Scandinavian camper; very practical and essentially immortal. Good windshielding; best at lower altitude (i.e. not at US Rocky Mountains heights)
W.R.T efficient things to cook with it: porage, custard. Given this is for household use not 24h mountain bike racing, tinned pasta or baked beans.