Discussion
I've complained about this before but one of the w o r s t things about modern Linux is you have like eight package managers and never know where anything came from.
Servo's giving me a warning. I search the Zulip. The warning means your uv is too old.
I have uv installed?? News to me
Oh, I have uv installed.
Who the fuck are you?
Where did you come from?
**How do I update you??**
@scottcain personally i always create a ~/usr but i think i'm the only one
@mcc MacOS too. Sometimes I clench up while typing “which” because I’m afraid of what it’ll tell me.
@mcc I'm waiting for the version being developed in China - specifically to replace windows - to become available.
It is downloadable right now but there's still a fair learning curve needed to run it.
When it loads over and seamlessly replaces Microsoft I'll be over the moon!
@mcc I wanted to make a package manager manager software thing that abstracts all of this.
It'd go through all the apckage managers and list the stuff and you can have one overview and dont need to care what manages xyz because you can just click update, delete, install etc.
@tim_lavoie does it solve this or does nix simply ban other package managers, such that if you encounter something that isn't packaged in nix you're now stuck
@mcc
Nix does it's own thing, and doesn't interfere with other stuff you have on your system. So it doesn't "ban" other things per se. However it tends to happen that *you* will try to have as little infra as possible outside of nix. Happened to a friend.
@tim_lavoie
@mcc Well, it certainly can't help with the things that happen outside its POV. Like, if you use it as a second package manager on top of a non-NixOS Linux, they will be separate things. You can do that though, if it helps with managing your dev stuff for example.
Or, language-specific package managers, again they can do their own thing, where maybe you just used Nix to get the rest of the environment configured.
@tim_lavoie sounds like what you're saying is nixos solves the problem and nix doesn't
@mcc Maybe just like... ignore the warning? What could possibly go wrong
@lambdageek working so far
(I think this means some subcomponent, somewhere is completely ignoring its pyproject.toml, which could be a problem if that turns out to be needed to configure things)
@mcc it feels like we've tried to make it the year of the Linux desktop by importing all the worst aspects of windows without the giant for-profit company that is theoretically on the hook for making it work.
@mcc The BSDs say hello!
@mcc I wonder if servo installed it for you as you attempted to follow a "getting started" guide a few weeks ago... what's the ctime/mtime?
@mcc this is confusing the hell out of me.
I came up in simpler times. There was compiling from source, and there was apt.
These days, I’m installing packet managers in order to install other package managers.
@mcc I am something of an expert at this sort of haunting but it is absolutely baffling how _servo_ could give you an error about this. like that feels like it’s a security problem, if servo ever invokes uv?
@glyph servo doesn't give the error. mach gives the error. mach is a wrapper on cargo that servo wrote. the reason they wrote a wrapper on cargo is their recommended build process involves calling uv
@mcc ah, a build-time error, gotcha. that’s weird but sounds less like malware than what I was imagining
@mcc It's so frustrating trying to compile a new project and tracking all the unfamiliar things I have to install and configure.
People shit on docker, but when I see a Dockerfile in a project I plan to quickly run I feel so happy. Not only is it runnable in a single command but the file contains all the setup that a clean machine would need so it's pretty informative.
@mcc What language is this tool that I am never going to modify myself written in? Why do I have to care?
@darkling It's worse than you could ever possibly imagine— it's a python package manager written in Rust. It replaces pip. So I have a package manager, which was installed by some other package manager, but I don't know which one.
@mcc As someone who doesn't touch Python very often, uv is nice (as far as the Python ecosystem trashfire goes), but it's very much "there are now N+1 competing standards".gif
@lambdageek my main issue is (1) once i had pipx and pdm set up, i didn't actually have any python ecosystem complaints to speak of and (2) to me one of the great things about python is it's "self-hosting"— i have a number of small VPSes— a lot of those I have python installed but not rust/cargo. "all i need is python and I can bootstrap all these other tools" is very valuable. uv breaks that
i mean also "owned by OpenAI" but that is more of an issue for my long-term goals than short term ones
@cerberus1746 @darkling it could— but if i install it via cargo, meaning theoretically i should upgrade it via cargo, and i tell it to self-upgrade, will this break anything??
@mcc
I'm annoyed with ~/.local/bin. What's the problem with using ~/bin? It's like they're trying to hide something!