I really didn’t have money on Proton crashing and burning as a trusted community partner and company due to leadership AI psychosis this rapidly. It’s incredibly disappointing and a huge loss.
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@hacks4pancakes I'm just.... I just don't know any more.
@hacks4pancakes Yeah... I made some quick adjustments to my own paid Proton subcription. Disappointing to see this, don't want to leave the product and need some time for off ramping and then on ramping elsewhere.
speedrunning the Mullvad / 1Password playbook
@hacks4pancakes Oh, damn, that's so frustrating. Proton's not the only provider I use, but I've relied it as a backup for certain things, and really needed to have confidence in it.
I'd seen some reports of questionable politics and so on, but having prepaid I didn't plan to move off it at this time, but this is completely bat-doodah crazy.
I'm almost at the point of crying with frustration at this stuff; I just don't have the time and energy to deal with it.
@GerardThornley Same. I wasn't ready for it just be effectively gone overnight. We're all scrambling to replacements.
@hacks4pancakes And nothing out there seems to fulfill all our criteria. Tuta appears to be a popular choice, but isn't without problems. I think that's another reason I hadn't already moved - when I last looked around, I wasn't happier about anything else.
I've done self-hosting before, but it's a lot of work and I'm not on top of things enough to keep it patched against current threats. Also, cloud IPs frequently get blocked but I wouldn't want it on my home network.
Sigh...
@hacks4pancakes Even worse then his last meltdown but where to go? Even with slop integration I currently don’t see alternatives that come even close in general use for mail and vpn.
Hell I even have problems to replace their own manager not fan per say but it was so dead simple that even elderly none tech people got it.
@hacks4pancakes I had written them of when I heard about the CEO being 'anti-woke' (aka pro-fash), that must have been 1 or 2 years ago. Seems I was right.
@hacks4pancakes at least they were kind enough to do it before my unlimited sub renews lmao
@hacks4pancakes got me thinking about hosting my own webmail but i'm terrified of spam
@hacks4pancakes sounds like he has AFP - AI FOMO Psychosis.
@hacks4pancakes
If you just need a secure email, why not try Tuta? [1] The mobile app is not as flashy as Proton's but it works and I've been quite happy with it.
I believe they have a rather strict no-AI stance too.
Also the paid plan lets you create 15(?) different emails pointing to the same inbox. It's pretty useful when you don't want to use the same emal everywhere.
[1] tuta.com
@hacks4pancakes how little love do they have over doing things right, another Mozilla in our hands
@ozamidas I have to object because while I'm not happy with Firefox, they aren't close to this level of scorched earth insanity.
@hacks4pancakes My family was looking to get off gmail and were considering proton but now that its staunchly pro-radioactive ai slop, I'll keep looking
@hacks4pancakes This really sucks. I've been moving away from Google services as much as possible and purchased a subscription for Proton Unlimited back in March. Guess I need to start looking for alternatives. I have a couple custom domains. Been using Proton Drive for my photo backups from my GrapheneOS Pixel. Use calendar app. Not much else. Any recommended alternatives that are privacy friendly, no AI BS, etc?
@hacks4pancakes The bit berating a staff member for suggesting maybe they should spend some time testing the security of the slop code before shipping in their product whose entire reason to be is the privacy and security of its customers.
I mean sure, churn out your slop code for your shitty little shopping list app, but some things need stronger guarantees perhaps?
I say this as someone with an app in each of the mobile app stores that is completely slop generated. Also not important cornerstones to anyone's privacy.
@hacks4pancakes Any recommendations you can make on where to look next? I'm literate enough to have my own instance on a managed hosting provider but not much more than that
Always happy to pay for a service so as not to be a product...
@Ali there was nothing international that was that mature.
@hacks4pancakes Massive loss then
@hacks4pancakes It’s yet another cautionary tale about the mental health risks of chatbots.
@hacks4pancakes Warning signs began appearing shortly after Proton's appearance in the states.
Very troubling.
I hope it is not a trend.
@hacks4pancakes It’s so fucking disheartening and deflating when trying to reshape my tech footprint into something more moral and ethical. It seems to be getting harder with each passing hour
Nobody’s mad at the employees working there. We’re all super grateful for your efforts and sorry it’s ending like this.
If you use and particularly, pay for anything they make, you need to read this. It’s one of the worst I’ve seen even in the 20s. 😳🫠
I don’t think they’re recovering without the board removing executive leadership. https://www.404media.co/manifestos-fear-and-loser-thinking-inside-protons-ai-reckoning/
@hacks4pancakes Yep, I read it. He needs to be removed and is practically going on like a petulant child
@hacks4pancakes That is a damning report. I doubt anyone here could read that and conclude Andy Yen is a good leader for Proton.
I guess that means tutamail is the email provider for tooters. (I actually do not have a tutamail account; but I thought the pun was cute.)
@hacks4pancakes I'm so glad I left a few months ago. It just got to the point where it became impossible to ignore the growing list of problems
@hacks4pancakes at this point I think we’re in a “self preservation” phase where these tech leaders don’t even believe in a benefit that will come from it anymore, but they got duped and wrote big checks so there better be a return on that investment or they’re forsaken to a golden parachute
@hacks4pancakes
Gods, I've been a proton user since 2020 I think.
I wasn't bothered as much by the stupid ass takes on right wingers "pro privacy stance" but calling pentesting loser thought when *the product I am paying for is a security product* is a line.
"I don't care if the helmets work! We just need to get our helmets out there to beat big helmet for selling unsafe helmets!"
Fucking seriously guys?
@nagaram there were red flags. 🚩
I didn’t expect full Idiocracy in one go
But thinking about it, the red flags were there.
@hacks4pancakes Not to toot *giggle* my own horn, but when I decided to de-Google two years ago, I did in fact consider the then-known, ahem, attitudes of the Proton CEO to be red flags & that's why I decided not to go with Proton, by far the most obvious option at the time.
When people tell us who they are, we should believe them & when a company is run by a person with questionable positions and/or ethics, we should assume that this is what the company stands for. Because it always is.
@hacks4pancakes It tells me how jaded I am that I read the comments he made and had to re-read the article to see what's controversial or out of the ordinary for execs.
@jsmall I mean everything is terrible in 2026 but this is noteworthy ugly.
I really hope they remove him and put in someone sane. He has been nothing but trouble for years. It's really unfair for the company to have to put out the fires he causes every single year.
@hacks4pancakes Andy yen needs to be sacked asap
@winterknight1337 @hacks4pancakes in the balls, right??? or the other sacked?
@hacks4pancakes I had already planned an exit strategy a couple of years ago after some of his outspoken politics that made the news right after I prepaid years ... but this is just nuts.
Overall I was happy with the service though. Email worked. I had very few people I sent emails to on the service and none that I used keys with outside of it. I also appreciated that they kept expanding their offering. I never used their AI, it felt too gimmicky.
Fastmail is on the short list. For now ...
@hacks4pancakes
Well, crud! There goes a decade-long relationship. 😑
Now what? Is there no safe harbor from this plague? Where can we turn for secure services free from AI slopfusion?
@hacks4pancakes did they even consider asking the ai to pentest it lol
after not doing enough research I moved my email to proton a couple of months ago . . . fuck!
@hacks4pancakes
The AI use aside, the whole attitude of "ship it, LOL!" on a security focused product is mind boggling!
@hacks4pancakes Yikes! Can I please just get a Google-like suite of tools without the AI obsessed techbro bullshit? 😫
@hacks4pancakes Wholeheartedly agree, they built a fantastic service to be then forced to compromise their own hard labor in service to someone clearly suffering from moderate/severe AI psychosis
@hacks4pancakes Those quotes from the CEO 😱
@cvwarren about the worst I’ve ever seen
@hacks4pancakes ...ok what??
looking it up
> “Due to insufficient velocity,” Proton is not on track to achieve its annual recurring revenue target by the end of the year, one internal document obtained by 404 Media reads. Proton’s year-over-year growth is also “far away from what the market today considers to be good,” and, “By all metrics that matter, we’re an underperforming company.”
See... This... This is a total fabrication.
What the above _actually_ means is that Proton's annual recurring revenue target is a total farce, created without reference to reality, or real-world constraints facing any company in the market right now.
They are, in fact, _completely_ full of excrement. What's worse is they know it. I'm assuming the company is _way_ over-leveraged and that's why Yen is losing his ever-loving mind.
@hacks4pancakes I've been a paying Proton user for a decade, but it's clearly time to change. My annual plan renews in less than a month, so I'm watching this thread intently for replacement suggestions.