Discussion
I was trying to understand EA and the person I was interacting with got very offended that I called it religion.
So I stopped doing that and let it go because I was trying to understand how this all works, what is the appeal?
The "not a religion" thing was really really really important to him. He explained that he grew up with fundamentalists and was proud of breaking free of constraining ideologies.
. . .
I didn't mean "religion" to be an insult.
@futurebird until scrolling through to the replies I was genuinely unsure how Electronic Arts fit into this story.
@futurebird They really do prey on this kind of person.
Also their biggest ongoing tactic for coercion, is that they like to redefine normal words and use that to put you, the outsider, on the back foot.
This guy you found was likely too hung up on the word "religion" because he wants to operate on some completely different definition of the word than most people would agree with.
We alone are free from dogmas. This is the one (and only) true way to be a free thinker.
@futurebird @pencilears "We alone are free from dogmas. This is the one (and only) true way to be a free thinker."
How can you be sure that this isn't Dogma?
@futurebird it's a real poser. how exactly do you tell someone they simply went from one sort of cult to another? all the words that seem to apply perfectly, like "cult" or "religion", they've schooled themselves to reject.
Philosophies don't have meetings, or people who tell you what to do... or secrets.
@futurebird or rituals, or sacred texts...but it's like they've reinvented all these things, all the while telling themselves they were totally original
@mxchara @futurebird Welcome to mystery cult religion, the most popular way to get started as a religious sect (see: Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and c)
When I call something a "religion" that just means that it's part of someone's culture and identity. These are things people believe and do because they are traditional and we can find revelation and comfort in traditions.
Obviously that can also be dangerous and worth questioning at times.
@futurebird Religion to me is a system of thought control, and that is a different thing from the culture of the people having that religion as a part of their life.
The spirituality of the people often have very little to do with the dogma of the priests and the stricture it imposes.
So to me the word "Religion" is perhaps not as much a insult, as much as a condemnation of abuse and fraud.
Not all religion is evangelical. And different expressions of religion will have these qualities to different degrees.
It heats up like this:
1. I believe this.
2. It makes my life better.
3. I want other people to know how much it means to me.
4. It could help some other people too.
5. It could help everyone.
6. They need to know for their own good.
7. Anyone who gets in my way spreading this idea is hurting everyone.
8. Anything is permissible to get them to see.
Anything past #3 or #4 is in the danger zone for me because it means if two people don't agree they are on the road to fighting each other over it.
@futurebird It is not so much about the evangelical bit (although I admit it certainly not helping) but just the "bow your head and submit to your better, because I know the truth and you don't (peasant scum)" part.
I wont name any religions here, but there a certain non evangelic religion that is kind of in the heat now that still have that feel.
@futurebird "He explained that he grew up with fundamentalists and was proud of breaking free of constraining ideologies. "
Oh dear
yeah, the rationalists are like that too. They're doing some speculative calculus as to future possibilities, convince themselves of it, and then it's faith, but they think it is based on reason. :/
Gebru and Torres, 2024, is a must read on this:
Effective altruism
@futurebird @CarstenBoll it's a cult. In that, it's a high-control group with an ideology.
@futurebird having also grown up fundamentalist, there is a lot of "filed the spiritual serial numbers off and put in something more sciency-sounding, but didn't change the underlying philosophical approach" around the EA crowd (Roko's Basilisk is literally just Pascal's Wager with robots). The New Atheists a couple decades ago were doing the same schtick.
Personally, I don't think you've actually left fundamentalism until you're more concerned with being kind than being right, but that's a harder shift than (even dramatically) changing what your definition of "right" is.