how come i keep seeing posts that "no they actually can code now" and also posts like "no they actually can't code now"
anyone wanna decipher this for me
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@majorlinux some people don't like the lying machine that convinces people to kill themselves and is a part of eugenicist cult project that's literally choking people while drinking their water and eating up every other resource...
@gildilinie I feel that wasn’t a part of the original post you made.
I was speaking more or less on the coding aspect of it.
But, since you’ve opened that can of worms:
A computer can’t lie to you because it doesn’t understand the concept of right or wrong.
It is unfortunate that people turn to computers to seek mental health, but we have a system that de-incentivizes seeking help and makes it out of reach for many people.
@gildilinie This overall tech predates the cult and said cult has all the money to shape the current iteration of this tech because unfortunately things only get done when the money is there to do it.
There are plenty of tools that do not do that and I’d argue that training models seems like a moot point now seeing where we are now and the capabilities of some of these models being able to run on things like smartphones.
The only way the harm goes away is with a radical change of society.
@majorlinux it wasn't a part of my original post but you've been begging for arguments!
And I'd like to know what LLMs don't do what I said? The local ones? The local ones still lie and convince people and do all kinds of nasty shit, and they still cause all the water, air, and resource consumption problems when they're being trained.
What does a good LLM look like?
These things, as long as they know natural language (English, French, Chinese, whatever) eat away your mind and turn it into cheese. Not your brain but your mind.
@gildilinie This isn’t me discounting that terrible things have happened. I’ve talked about them ad nauseam.
Let’s start with the LLM itself:
Had it been properly tested and vetted before being released, a lot of what we’re seeing could have been easily avoided. It’s like putting out bad code. If you know something like this happens, you make sure it doesn’t happen again.
@gildilinie As both of us pointed out before, these tools are nothing more than powerful autocomplete machines. There is no thinking behind them at all. It seems weird to me that people who acknowledge its software keep trying to attach personhood to it by saying it “lies” or “thinks”.
I’d argue that any “good” LLM would be something that is attached to a well-built harness with proper guardrails. Things that are built for specific tasks. Definitely not for fucking therapy and your BBQ flyer.
@gildilinie And, as I said for training, we don’t really need it anymore.
That should just stop.
No more data centers. Stop building them. Let the people have their RAM and storage back.
The only reason that they keep going is because everyone is trying to be the first to something that may or may not exist and to corner that market.
If the people controlled it, we’d have stopped a long time ago.
I mean, as you have mentioned, there are better ways and that could have been funded instead.
@gildilinie And I still don’t buy the “mind into cheese” argument.
I’ve been asking what that even looks like.
I’ve had more time to read, play video games, debate on the internet, do my son’s math homework (common core fucking sucks), be civically engaged, and still feel sharp.
So, what is the “mind into cheese” bit people keep referring to?
Offloading repetitive tasks?
Doing data analysis?
Answering a boss’s email?
People who look bad when the AI is taken away were never good to start.
@majorlinux they fucking combined the human need for social interaction, anthropomorphism, gambling, flattery, cognitive offloading and reinforcing people's beliefs into a single fucking thing. It's like a slot machine if a slot machine also kissed your ass and did your homework for you.
I think the last one you put "answering a boss's email" is really bad... now I can't even tell my boss to go fuck himself without going through Anthropic Eugenic Corp
@gildilinie Yes, that’s what the ruling class did.
The tool didn’t do it itself.
Most tech companies have doctors and experts on staff to keep people using the product more than they should.
These are people who shouldn’t be in control of shit.
Let Anthropic see it. I hope it cleans it up for me.
@majorlinux I know when I let it write for me I start to get hooked. I start reaching for it to do something more and more. I can feel it. And I am a sane and responsible adult. Who knows exactly how these things work under the hood. And I'm not even a gambler or susceptible to flattery. But still.
It eats up your will to communicate. It eats up your will to write. You reach it for more and more and it disappoints you. But you wanna pull the handle again and hope the next one is better.
So then you need a good metaphor maybe. A good metaphor to explain something. And you reach for it. And it gives you trash. So you pull again. And it gives you trash. And then I wake up and I'm sitting there arguing with a computer in ENGLISH. IN FUCKING ENGLISH WITH A COMPUTER. Instead of talking to a human being and saying what needs to be said. Because it slurped up my will and humanity like a god damn vampire.
That's how you get cheese mind. Its not swiss cheese mind. It's american cheese mind. Mostly sodium citrate
@gildilinie That sounds like something you may want to address.
It handles shit for me that I don’t want to deal with so I can get to actually enjoying life.
It’s made me actually question if this is something I even want to do anymore.
Maybe I don’t want to be a Linux admin.
Maybe I don’t want to run a home lab.
Maybe the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.
This is what I think about when it comes to these tools.
Spending more time with my family has been better than staring at screens.
@majorlinux maybe you should address understanding that it does this to everyone. You don't have some magical special immunity
@gildilinie What evidence do you have for that?
I never said I have immunity and will admit it might be doing something.
But as I have been open and honest to everyone I talk to about my usage, I have not had anyone point this out.
This is why I keep pressing. To make sure I’m not missing something. I see the stories. I’m afraid that I’d fall into something, too.
I watch “Intervention” thinking that could be me one day and want to know if I’m ever falling down that path.
@majorlinux i dont have a dog in the argument of whether you wanna homelab or not. if the juice aint worth the squeeze it aint then
However, every day at work I see it and all the science agrees with it (often reluctantly because the scientists want to like AI, or the scientists are even sponsored by AI, and they still gotta say stuff like yeah 95% of the time this makes people worse at whatever it is. And if I look around and its happening to everyone around me, and I've felt it happen to me like I felt I had to quit the sauce and detox, and I look at the literature and that's what the literature says too, then I believe it.
And heres the cognitive offloading thing. Its exactly that thing that everyone does when their spousse is like "hay where do you wanna pick up food I'm too tired to cook" and they go "I don't know you decide" . Your brain wants to conserve energy and find sugar. It runs on sugar. The sugar is the thought energy. Its been honed by evolution for a hundred million years to increase sugar consumed, decrease how much sugar is used, stick with the pack, talk to other people, consider things with faces or that talk to be people, take chances, and find shortcuts.
So you say "I don't know you decide" which is normal. that's how being human is. only now you're saying it to a fuckin chatbot and the chatbot decides. Not a human
The only reason I use it is because I taunted the gods by helping create this godawful technology, i only use it to evaluate it, and I dont think anyone should use it unless they're doing it for a paycheck
And I dont think they planned this stuff out.
you said: "doctors and experts on staff to keep people using the product more than they should"
But that isn't how this started, they fell ass backwards into something in November 2022 that was already fucking addictive in 5 different ways.
1. social/anthropomorphical.
"just because it talks doesn't mean its intelligent" - qui gon jin, the holy bible episode 1, 1999 ... but the problem is our minds evolved over a million years to think it does mean it's people
2. gambling/game loop.
3. flattery.
4. cognitive offloading,
5. bubbling (agreeing with people whether deserved or not).
and i dont think everyone is equally susceptible to these. Gambling never worked on me. Cognitive offloading did work on me. People are different but people aren't THAT different. And one of these is gonna get you.
Then you get the negative impacts. It starts filling your head with its ideas, or reinforcing your worst impulses. You start thinking like it, becuase thats how humans socialize.
None of that can be fixed with guardrails as long as it's Large
And you know what I don't want to sound like a fucking chatbot. I don't want to have chatbot ideas. I don't wanna use chatbot metaphors. I don't wanna write chatbot stories. And right now the only 2 places selling chatbot are the eugentics dr strangelove "well as long as a thousand whites survive to repopulate earth its fine" cult or China, and China distills off the first one.
@gildilinie Again, all valid points.
However, I still feel like this is all coming from one viewpoint. It’s as if everyone is stuck at looking at the near term and not the long term.
By looking at it in its current state, it looks like a monster that can’t be tamed and must be killed.
I don’t think that way. It’s something I haven’t done in a while.
I believe it is important to see how we got where we currently are and where we can go from here.
@gildilinie That’s been the argument people have been having about LLMs for quite some time.
I’d wait on people to make up their mind, but I have my thoughts on it and this one I’ll keep to myself before I get shouted down by angry nerds on the internet.