Discussion
#DiDay #dutgemacht
Ich habe noch immer ein Samsung Android. Jetzt schwanke ich zwischen #Fairphone mit #/e/OS und #Motorola mit #GrapheneOS, hauptsächlich wegen der OS. Dass ich auf Motorola mit GrapheneOS noch warten muss, ist okay.
Was findest du besser?
@Yewa Kommt drauf an was du möchtest.
Google Pixels mit GrapheneOS sind/waren so ziemlich die "Sichersten" Handys, wenn es um staatliche Zugriffe geht.
Fairphone versucht gute Lieferketten und nen niedrigen ökologischen Fußabdruck zu haben + einigermaßen reparierbar.
/e/OS kann man nutzen wenn man.. einem Französischen Software Anbieter vertraut und ähnlichen Komfort wie mit normalen Android genießen will. Bei /e/OS ist der G-Microkernel verhandelbar.
@sleepy @Yewa Fairphones are insecure devices unable to provide a reasonable level of privacy and security. They don't provide proper updates from day one and they get increasingly bad over the lifetime of the device. Fairphone 5 and earlier already have end-of-life kernels and it will happen for the Fairphone 6 too. They do not provide the kind of long term support the devices are marketed as having. The devices end up prematurely obsolete and need to be replaced early for privacy and security.
@sleepy @Yewa Fairphones are white labelled devices made by an ODM. The current ODM since the Fairphone 4 is T2Mobile. Fairphone doesn't publish actual information on the working conditions, pay and environment impact of the assembly, manufacturing and supply chain for the devices. On their site, they provide a transparency report with a list of companies involved in making the devices. The information provided on each company is limited to the city they're based in and a website if available.
@sleepy @Yewa Fairphones do not last as long as an iPhone or Pixel due to starting out with past generation hardware and not providing proper updates for it. The newly launched devices have 1-2 months of delays for the incomplete Android Security Bulletin backports to older releases. There's a year or more of delay for the full updates requiring the new OS releases. Firmware and driver updates are shipped very late. Linux kernel patches are largely not provided and are cut off after 2-3 years.
@sleepy @Yewa /e/ drastically reduces both privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. If you care at all about those, stay far away from it. The standard Fairphone software doesn't receive good updates and everything older than the Fairphone 6 has an end-of-life kernel but it's still better than /e/. /e/ and Murena products are not what they're marketed as being.
More information:
https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
GrapheneOS logo
@sleepy
Da Frankreich meine Herzensheimat ist, habe ich kein Problem mit Franzosen. Kannst du mir den letzten Satz etwas erklären?
@Yewa Na klar.
Also /e/OS ist auch ein Android, benutzt aber nicht direkt die Google Mobile Services sondern hat diese in Eigenentwicklung nachgebaut. (microG)
Die Google Mobile Services sind auf standard Android nicht deaktivierbar.
In /e/OS schon. (Deswegen verhandelbar)
Ohne diesen microG kernel funktioniert zum Beispiel der normale Playstore nicht, evtl. eingeschränke Gps, Push Benachrichtigungen und Banking Apps.
Dafür sendet man nicht regelmäßig an einen Google-Server.
@sleepy @Yewa No, /e/ always uses Google services without a way to disable it. It has highly privileged integration for Google services not present in the Android Open Source Project. It makes a large number of connections to Google by default and doesn't support disabling all of it. microG sits in between the Google libraries used by apps and Google services. It has highly privileged access. On /e/, it downloads and runs Google Play executable code with privileged access by default.
@sleepy
Kannst du mir auch die Sandbox erklären? Geht das auch mit /e/OS?
Bei mir läuft #calyxos auf dem Fairphone 5 und #grapheneos auf einem Pixel 9
@fzap @Yewa Those devices are nearly direct opposites of each other. Fairphone 5 has an end-of-life Linux kernel without security support and lags multiple months to a year behind on providing bare minimum patches to other components. There are a bunch of working exploits on GitHub.
CalyxOS greatly rolls back the privacy and security of AOSP rather than improving those as GrapheneOS does. It recently took multiple months to provide standard updates and previously went a whole year without any.
Thank you very much for the explanation. I’m a user, not a programmer, so it’s hard for me to assess how secure a system is. Some background: I bought a Fairphone 5 more than a year ago because I thought it was more sustainable than other smartphones and because I wanted to reduce my dependence on Google by using CalyxOS. Then, in August 2025, there were massive problems with CalyxOS (they lost their signing key).
@Yewa würde GrapheneOS nehmen wegen höheren Sicherheitsstandard.
@dracula @Yewa GrapheneOS is a privacy project with major privacy enhancements including Contact Scopes, Storage Scopes, secure paste and much more. It doesn't connect to any third party services by default and has a very limited set of default connections which are documented and can be controlled by users.
GrapheneOS preserves the standard privacy/security of AOSP by keeping up with updates and enabling all of the protections. It also provides far better patches than AOSP and the Pixel OS.
@dracula @Yewa /e/, iodéOS and CalyxOS do not keep up with the standard privacy and security patches or protections. They do not make similar enhancements to privacy and security. They go in the opposite direction by lagging many months and even years behind on updates.
Android Security Bulletins are incomplete backports of Android privacy/security patches to older releases. Those aren't the full patches and already come with a delay. Only shipping those with weeks of delay is increasingly bad.
@lothar Das kenne ich gar nicht...
@Yewa
https://iode.tech/de/offiziell-von-iodeos-unterstutzte-gerate/
Ist nicht so Hardcore-Security wie Graphene, aber mir gefällt es gut, v.a. die integrierte Filter-Option der Firewall-App ist cool. (Umfangreiche Filter gibt es gegen Abo-Gebühr, finde ich als Geschäftsmodell akzeptabel.)
@lothar @Yewa iodéOS greatly rolls back privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. It lags far behind on privacy/security patches and protections. It isn't a reasonably safe option and doesn't provide what it's marketed as doing.
The badness enumeration approach you're talking about doesn't protect against the most privacy invasive behaviors by apps and services. It's easy to bypass and increasingly doesn't work. There are also better open source implementations for free.
Install Fedizen
Get the full app experience
@Yewa /e/ drastically reduces both privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project. If you care at all about those, stay far away from it. The standard Fairphone software doesn't receive good updates and everything older than the Fairphone 6 has an end-of-life kernel but it's still better than /e/. /e/ and Murena products are not what they're marketed as being.
More information:
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private
https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/commit/c7447de50bc8fadd20a30d4cbf1dcd8cf14805a0/static/misc/e.txt
Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum
Comparison of Android-based Operating Systems