Please don't destroy Chipotle /s
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“Having a conversation” is a stall tactic.
I will never forget when the neighborhood Facebook was alight about the hoards that were going house by house through the suburbs. That was almost 10 miles of suburban sprall…my nerd brain can’t fathom the logistics of that and where that force would have come from.
I see the problem. You heard something from leftists, and then brought up something said by liberals.
Easy mistake in the bullshit US discourse
Yeah the monolithing OP is doing is honestly impressive. Here, let me try another:
“Americans say trans rights are human rights, but then they also say trans people should be banned from public restrooms. Wtf lol???”
Keep in mind, the property damage after the murder of George Floyd was started by a white supremacist, too. “Umbrella man” smashed windows on an auto zone and spray painted it “free shit zone,” it would later be set on fire. Out of 20 people charged in Minnesota for rioting, only 4 were actually local to the state.
During the BLM demonstrations right wing provocatours deliberately caused damage to discredit the demonstrations. Two were caught and prosecuted in Cleveland where i live. Don’t be a tool
Yep. Pretty much all of the negative issues from the BLM protests were off duty cops or non-local white supremacists trying to provoke violence.
Remember the conveniently placed pallets of bricks?
Well yeah liberals value property more than human life. That’s been true for all of liberalism. I’d say it’s the core tenet of liberalism. For liberalism private property is the most sacred belief they have.
Don’t forget order. Order is the other guiding principle of liberalism. Although I guess you could say that order exists to protect property. So maybe it’s a 1B kind of thing.
As a liberal, I’m gonna need these rules in a paper copy if you don’t mind. Because I’m all for killing authoritarianism and budgening oppressors… And I care little about my own private property in my pursuit to do those things.
Property can be replaced. Murdering your oppressors is forever.
I’m assuming you aren’t a liberal? Or left of anything? On a scale of one to ten, how much do you love boots?
What private property do you have? Do you have like a factory or a own a forest or a mine or something? You sure you’re not talking about personal property?
Are you sure you are a liberal? Cuz it sounds to me that you’re way to the left of liberals. I could be wrong though. Maybe you are a liberal. Maybe you’re one of that group of people that every single time it comes to supporting the the workers or supporting fascism you’ll support fascism. Cuz that’s what liberals do.
Liberals will always turn against the working class. We have 300 years of human history that backs this lesson up and I have no sympathy for people who have refused to learn from it.
Liberal has a completely different meaning in the US and has for about the last century. Wikipedia article on social liberalism in general and here’s one on modern liberalism in the US, but if you don’t want to read all that, here’s an excerpt:
Modern liberalism in the United States emerged with Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal in the 1930s and is the prevailing version of liberalism in the country. It is most synonymous with the ideology known as social liberalism in much of the world, combining in the U.S. version elements of cultural liberalism, American progressivism, civil liberty and social equality with support for social justice and a mixed economy
and a bit later in the same article:
Economically, modern liberalism embraces a role for government to protect against market failures, ensure competition and prevent corporate monopolies, and supports labor rights through the strengthening of public- and private-sector labor unions, collective bargaining, unemployment insurance and minimum wage laws.
So I think perhaps you can see how the term means something completely different there.
And as a kicker, the US “conservative” party is economically liberal, whereas much of the “liberal” party is not (unfortunately much of the old guard there are more liberal rather than liberal).
TL;DR: Yes, the economic term “liberalism” means “let corpos do whatever the fuck”. In the modern meaning of the word politically, it’s more “all people are created equal and all deserve to be free”.
There is an enormous amount of evidence to disprove the idea that liberals will always support fascism. Fascism explicitly rejected liberal democracy, individual rights, and political pluralism. Liberals were among those persecuted by fascist regimes, and liberal democracies were instrumental in defeating said fascist regimes.
Never understood the lengths some Lemmy users go to describe liberalism in these ways. It’s just as bad when people do the same thing towards ideologies such as communism
Violent and destructive protests don’t happen much in red states because conservatives are mostly okay with looters valuing property more than their lives. Conservatives also value looters’ lives less than their property.
![Uriel238 [all pronouns]](https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/F35ZPn4aBw.jpg "Uriel238 [all pronouns]")
Um, all BLM has to do is wear merch and hold up a sign and the police start lobbing CS grenades.
The point of protest isn’t to riot, but to get the state to over-respond, brutally. Its why the entire world knows about and sympathizes with the BLM cause.
At least that’s the game, according to COIN. Hearts and minds. Though in the Civil Rights movement, we added lawsuits.
And Trump and the red states are quick with their riot squads. Left wing movements just have to represent and make booga-booga faces to trigger anti-riot shooting civilians with rubber bullets. (They’re plastic and steel, actually.)
And then two years later, the victims are awarded millions from the districts or the US treasury, depending on the department of the officer who decided it was time to bust heads.
Law enforcement in the US has already lost its legitimacy in the public eye, worldwide. We know they’re just thugs of the state, and their response to protest, especially minority protest, especially black protest, figures largely into that paradigm shift.
So, just because protesters in the US still carry signs instead of molotovs, doesn’t mean the protests are weak. It means the state’s responsers are incredibly easily trolled into initiating violence while camers are watching.
The point of protesting is not to provoke the state to kill you so that people will watch it.
There are many points to protesting. Provoking the opposition is one of them. We see this in civil disobedience protests and noncooperation actions.
Provocation of state responders is one of the effects of protest, regardless of whether it is intended. But it’s so consistent, especially in authoritarian regimes, that it is absolutely figured into the calculations of organizers. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., for instance, staged actions expecting casualties, but knowing they would ultimately further the cause by orders of magnitude.
It’s unlikely you (a specific person) will get killed at a protest, but we see casualties at protests all the time, and they are often honored, such as the Kent State victims, who have a folk song written about them. It also sparked a student strike four million strong, and helped to speed the end of the war.
Not all antagonistic responses have to be lethal or even injurious to to create a backlash in support of the cause. The No Kings Snapchat account shutdown by Meta is already resulting in backlash against the Trump regime, against Zuckerberg, and against the tech bro coalition in general.
But again, all a state really needs to do is manage a protest with grace. Authoritarian regimes just jave a tendency to take visible dissent personally (or any criticism, really), and then more liberal states often fail to instill in their law enforcement a predisposition of deescalation. I suspect right-wingers just enjoy the notion of cracking dissenter heads so much they can’t help themselves.
All these people saying that Americans can’t protest forget that we literally host hometown hero Luigi. Arguably the best way to get the message across. Needs more consistency, but It’s certainly effective.
a lot of people somehow missed the fact that luigi’s actions worked to force change immediately.
“somehow” as in the media kept that part quiet as best they could.
Temporarily IIRC. Didn’t they quietly revert their changes later, denying just as many claims again?
And that change was the mass deployment of Flock cameras Nation-wide.
I’ve said it before.
People are alive today that wouldnt be alive if someone hadnt shot that UHC CEO.
The entire insurance industry got so scared and so panicked that they stopped denying coverage for curable issues for like… the next year. Hundreds, thousands, possibly tens of thousands of people are alive today, and are in better health today, because one vile piece of shit got shot and died.
Thats an easy trade to make any day of the week.
it ain’t the same guys saying both.
Knock off all this fascism! Seriously, don’t make us slowly walk around downtown in a slowly circle again…
It is one of the more proven methods to onramp liberals to leftism, at any rate.
I’d be fine with burning down the government buildings and harassing politicians who’re responsible for the problems. I don’t see a point in destroying regular people’s jobs or the places they’re going to purchase the things they need. It’s not going to get people on your side.
yeah this meme is being intentionally dishonest. nobody is upset about a fucking fast food chain burning down.
If it was one of the 3 that are close enough to my job to get lunch I’d be a little pissed.
If normal people can’t work because of government decisions, hey just go vote.
If normal people can’t work because of a protest about government decisions, oh no let’s stop all of this!
What is the government doing that’s preventing people from working?
Have you been living under a rock sir?
Exactly? People get a lot of shit here in europe too but you still do it. Thats exactly the point of a protest, to raise awareness
Hate to break it to you but the same is true in France. Media coverage here has focused almost exclusively on small shops being looted. The human brain has a much easier time focusing on individual tragedies rather than systemic issues, and the government and its cronies (and the local versions of fox news) are taking full advantage of that bias.
Less a “human brain” focus than a main media focus
Always with the “liberals”.
They keep forgetting to put “neo” in front.
I dunno man, there are some who ONLY operate under the Marxist definition of “Liberal”. They don’t believe language evolves and that maybe to most people “Liberal” is the term used to describe anyone with progressive ideals.
Because the Marxist version of liberals still call themselves liberals and have intentionally erased the semantic existence of all ideologies left of them so that they can pretend to be the left.
Sure. But the bucket of people that term encapsulates doesn’t match that definition anymore.
That’s not how that works. That only makes sense if like liberal parties didn’t exist. Saying Social Democrats or Socialists or Greens are more liberal than Liberals on some issues doesn’t make any sense, it like implies that the Liberals are ontologically the most progressive.
I still remember when students at the local high school organized a BLM march from the school to the police station (a 30 minute walk) I saw so many posts from people in this town itching to shoot them if they even looked at their house weird.